Axis & Allies ForuMINI

f6f5hellcat · Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 216 Location: Yuma, AZ

Here is a fleet I am working on for the IJN that I am hoping to play next weekend.

A6M2 "Zeke" x4 24 pts.
H8K1 Type2 "Emily" x2 20 pts.
Kongo 35 pts.
Haruna 38 pts.
Tone 23 pts.
Yahagi x2 28 pts.
Akitsuki x3 30 pts.
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Total 198 pts.

I went with the two Emily's so I would have a versital unit for dealing with subs and small ships. I only have 4 Zekes other wise I would have played more of them. With the Yahagis, I get the floatila leader SA for +3 with the Akitsukis and flag 1 from the Kongo for +4 inititive control.
The idea is to set up each of the rares with a Akitsuki and the two Yahagis together, then rush the objectives. Comments?

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WaS 128/64
TF 104/60
"Do or do not,...there is no try." Yoda
"War is hell brought to earth by man." General Sherman

IJN Fuso · Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Posts: 2189

Suggestions:

Trade Tone for Nachi and save 5 - you don't have alot of air, so Tone's SA is just not worth the extra 5 in my opinion. Nachi gives you better guns and the same LLs. Or you could trade Tone for another Yahagi. That would save 9.

That 9 buys you a Shoho. I know, not exactly a great unit, but one that may suerve your purposes well. It gives a zeke expert DF - helpful for aborting SBDs and Avengers. It forces your opponant to send his air against it, or let you keep the Expert DF SA. Since this is a speed fleet - that extra turn he's not attacking your cruisers may may buy you an objective.

The last question is do you really want 20 points of Emilys? for 20 points you can have I19 and 2 Kamikazes. Or I19 and a Betty. Or 2 more Akits.

Finally - Kamikazes make great Zeke proxies.
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TimK
IJN FUSO
www.modelwarshipcombat.com

Captain_Arrr · Torpedoes away! Joined: 15 Aug 2008 Posts: 128

Well, let me give my 2 cents.

I so go for it with the Tone if you don't have a Myoko or a Nachi.

The Emilys seem unconventional, but not completely out of place. Do you have any more Japanese Destroyers or Bettys? It just seems too much to try and protect both Emilys from enemy fighters.

I personally thik the Shoho is a bad idea. With Armor 1, it'll get sunk too easilly. You'll spend too much time defending it. And with vital 6....no if you go carrier, bring a bigger one.
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"It's a Trap!!!!!!!!!!"

swarbs · Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:42 am Post subject:

I'd like to see more killing power here, the knee-jerk would be to combine your two BB's into a Musashi and buy an extra destroyer (would have to trade down the Tone to do it). You could also turn your battleships into Yamashiro (which with extra armor/vital and Torp Defense will stick around longer) and use the extra points for Isokazes or I19's to beef up the torpedo side.

My first Axis rare was Kongo, so I saw it get trashed so often I don't have much confidence in it, cruisers and heck even destroyers can damage it, and just about all battleships hit the vital pretty easily. Maybe back then I just used it dumb but I still have a bit of an aversion.
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f6f5hellcat · Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 216 Location: Yuma, AZ

Well, while those are all good ideas, I wanted to stay away from the Yamato sisters as I am winning every game I play at my LGS and want to give the other two guys who play a chance to win.

I have both the Myoko and the Nachi, but went with the Tone as its scout cruiser SA works for ships as well as for planes.

The two Emilys are for sub hunting early and with their defencive armament SA, don't have to worry to much about fighters.

I suppose what I am asking you guys for is not what needs to be changed but rather what stratagy would you use to make it effective for you.
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WaS 128/64
TF 104/60
"Do or do not,...there is no try." Yoda
"War is hell brought to earth by man." General Sherman

IJN Fuso · Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Posts: 2189

OK then.

I like your speed swarm strategy with this fleet. For speed to work - you need to have too many units to kill before you claim objectives. This forces your opponant in close to contest one of them and then you open up with LLs. Even the might Iowa and Missouri can be wiped out in a LL swarm.

So I'd prefer to squeak out more surface units with LLs. I understand the Zekes as you need air defense. I'm not sure I like the Emilys. I've had great luck with them, but as a componant of air heavy builds. Employ JETS and Emily's shine. Emilys alone and I dunno. Try it and see.

Like Swarbs, I'm not a huge Kongo fan. I'd trade in one for Nachi and Yahagi or some DDs if your looking to swarm. Or add in subs. Japanese subs are great with a Range 3 torp attack.

GL. Let us know how this fleet works out
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TimK
IJN FUSO
www.modelwarshipcombat.com

f6f5hellcat · Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 216 Location: Yuma, AZ

I was hoping to give this fleet a try on friday but no such luck. I am stuck in the hospital for the time being. No one who visits me plays the games I do!

I will play this fleet as soon as I can get out of here though.
_________________
WaS 128/64
TF 104/60
"Do or do not,...there is no try." Yoda
"War is hell brought to earth by man." General Sherman

The_lucky_Y · Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:26 am Post subject:

please use Yamashiro instead of kongo/haruna
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f6f5hellcat · Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 216 Location: Yuma, AZ

The_lucky_Y · Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:50 am Post subject:

f6f5hellcat · Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 216 Location: Yuma, AZ

Yeah!!! I am out of the hospital!!!!
I will be playing this fleet tonight and will post an After Action Report tomarrow.
_________________
WaS 128/64
TF 104/60
"Do or do not,...there is no try." Yoda
"War is hell brought to earth by man." General Sherman

f6f5hellcat · Joined: 25 Feb 2008 Posts: 216 Location: Yuma, AZ

After Action Report

Axis fleet Allies fleet
A6M2 "Zeke" x4 HMS Illustrious
H8K1 Type 2 "Emily" x2 F6F-3 Hellcat x2
Kongo USS Saratoga
Haruna TBF Avenger x3
Tone USS San Francisco
Yahagi x2 Hr. Ms. De Ruyter
Akitsuki x3 HMAS Arunta x3
PBY Catalina x2
USS Baltimore
USS Atlanta
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Total pts. 198 Total pts.199

Map check rolled 1d6 came up as a 6. Map used, number 6 in the
rule book (side of map with land on the sides.)

Set up check
Allies +5 inititive, roll 8 for total of 13
Axis +4 inititive, roll 12 for total of 16
Allies set up first on west side of map in northern 3 sectors next to
land airbase. (north side of map is top above Axis and allies logo on map)

Sector1 Sector2 Sector3
USS Saratoga HMS Illustrious USS Baltimore
USS Atlanta Hr. Ms. De Ruyter USS San Francisco
HMAS Arunta HMAS Arunta HMAS Arunta
TBF Aveenger x2 TBF Avenger
F6F-3 Hellcat F6F-3 Hellcat

Land base
PBY Catalina x2

Axis sets up on east side of map, 4 center sector behind island from north to south

sector 2 Sector 3 Sector 4 Sector 5
Yahagi Tone Kongo Haruna
Yahagi Akitsuki Akitsuki Akitsuki

Land base
Zeke x4
Emily x2

Round 1 inititive check
Allies roll snake eyes total inititive 7
Axis roll 8 total inititive 12
Allies move first

All ships advance 2 sectors, Saratoga force staying next to land with Illustrious force
and Baltiome force staying even with advancement towards northern and central objectives.

Axis movement
Axis split around island, moving out infront of island.

Air Missions
Allies
PBY 1 placed in sector infront of Kongo
PBY 2 placed in sector infront of Tone
TBF 1 thru 3 placed in sector with Kongo
Hellcat 1 in sector with Kongo for escort
Hellcat 2 placed in sector with Baltimore

Axis
Emily 1 and 2 placed in sector with Baltimore
Zeke 1 in sector with Kongo
Zeke 2 in sector with Haruna
Zeke 3 and 4 stay at base

Allies Anti Air Attacks
Baltimore Sector
Arunta on Emily 1, 5 dice roll 2,4,6,6,6 hits vital armor of emily
San Francisco on Emily 2, 6 dice roll 1,1,4,5,5,6 Emily 2 aborted

Kongo Sector
Hellcat on Zeke AA8 +2 advanced fighter +1 expert dogfighter 11 dice
rolls 1,1,1,2,2,2,3,4,4,5,6 Zeke aborted

Axis Anti Air Attacks

Kongo sector
Akitsuki 1st attack on TBF1, 5 dice 1,1,4,5,5 missed 2nd attack on TBF1, 5 dice 1,3,3,4,5
missed
Kongo on TBF1, 7 dice 1,1,2,2,3,5,6 missed
zeke on TBF1 7 dice 1,3,4,4,6,6,6 TBF1 aborted

Allies Air Attacks
TBF 2 on Kongo, 3 dice +1 BB killer +1 expert torpedos +1 PBY Shadowing
1,1,4,4,4,5 missed
TBF 3 on Kongo, 3 dice +1 BB killer +1 expert torpedos +1 PBY Shadowing
1,2,2,3,5,6 Kongo hit with 1 torpedo for 2 hull pts.

Axis Air Attacks
none

no surface attacks
air return

Round 2 inititive check
Allies roll 8 +5 total 13
Axis roll 5 +4 total 9

Axis moves first
Haruna force moves 2 sectors towards souther objective
Kongo force moves next to center objective
Yahagi force moves next to northern objective

Allies movement
Atlanta, De Ruyter and Arunta move next to northern objective
Saratoga stays put, Illustrious and Arunta2 move into sector with Saratoga
Baltimore force moves next to center objective

Air missions
Axis
Emily into sector with Baltimore, Zeke 3 and 4 into sector with Kongo

Allies
PBY 1 in sector with Yahagi 1 & 2, PBY 2 in sector north of Kongo to shadow
TBFs in Kongo sector, Hellcat 1 in sector with TBFs for escort, Hellcat 2 in Baltimore sector

Axis Anti Air Attacks
Yahagi 1 on PBY 1, 6 dice 1,1,3,3,5,5 missed
Yahagi 2 on PBY 1, 6 dice 1,1,3,3,4,6 PBY 1 aborted

Kongo sector
Akitsuki on TBF 1, 1st shot 5 dice 1,2,4,4,5 missed 2nd shot 5 dice 1,2,4,5,6 missed
Kongo on TBF 1, 7 dice 3,3,3,3,4,5,6 missed
Zeke 3 on TBF 1, 7dice 5s & 6s only 1,2,2,2,3,3,5 missed
Zeke 4 on TBF 1, 7 dice 5s & 6s only 1,2,3,3,4,5,6 missed

Allies Anti Air Attacks
Hellcat 1 on Zeke 3 in Kongo sector 8 dice +2 advanced fighter +1 expert dogfighter 1,1,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,6,6 Zeke aborted

Baltimore sector
Arunta on Emily 5 dice 3,3,4,5,6 Emily aborted

Axis Air Attacks
none

Allies Air Attacks
Kongo sector
TBF 1 on Kongo 3 dice +1 BB killer +1 expert torpedos +1 PBY shadowing
1,2,4,5,6,6 2 torpedo hits Kongo sunk
TBF 2 on Akitsuki 3 dice +1 expert torpedos 1,6,6,6 Akitsuki cut in 2, sunk

Surface Attacks
Axis
Haruna on Baltimore range 3 main guns 11 dice +1 from tone scout crusier
1,1,2,2,3,3,3,4,5,6,6,6 8 hits Baltimore loses 1 hull pt.
Haruna on Baltimore seconder guns 6 dice 1,1,3,4,6,6 5 hits Baltimore lose 1 hull pt. Baltimore crippled
Akitsuki on Baltimore LL torpedo 1 dice rolls a 4 missies

Tone on Atlanta main guns 8 dice 1,2,3,4,5,5,6,6 7 hits Atlanta lose 1 hull pt.
Tone on Atlanta secondary guns 3 dice 1,3,4 misses armor
Akitsuki on Atlanta main guns 3 dice 4,5,6 4 hits Atlanta crippled
Akitsuki on Atlanta LL torpedos 1 dice rolls 2 misses
Yahagi 1 on Atlanta main guns 5 dice 3,3,5,5,6 4 hits Atlanta sunk
Yahagi 1 on De Ruyter LL torpedos 1 dice rolls 6 De Ruyter sunk
Yahagi 2 on Arunta main guns 1,2,2,3,4 missed
Yahagi 2 on Arunta LL torpedos 1 dice rolls 6 Arunta sunk

Allies
Baltimore on Haruna range 3 main guns 8 dice 1,2,2,4,5,5,6,6 7 hits Haruna loses 1 hull pt.
San Francisco on Haruna range 3 main guns 6 dice 1,1,2,3,5,6 misses armor
Atlanta on Tone range 2 main guns 5 dice 1,2,4,5,6 4 hits Tone losses 1 hull pt.
De Ruyter on Tone range 2 main guns 5 dice 1,2,4,6,6 5 hits Tone loses 1 hull pt. Tone crippled
Arunta on Tone range 2 main guns 5 dice 2,5,5,6,6 6 hits Tone sunk
Arunta on Akitsuki range 2 torpedos 1 dice rolls 6 Akitsuki sunk

Air return

Round 3
Inititive checks
Allies roll 8 +1 Flag +2 from Floatilla leader total 11
Axis roll 11 +1 flag +1 from Floatilla leader total 13
Allies go first

Allies movement
Baltimore forc moves into center objective

Saratoga and Illustrious move next to northern objective

Axis movement
Haruna into southern objective
Yahagi force into northern objective

Air missions
Allies
PBY 1 placed 1 sector norht of Haruna PBY 2 placed in northern objective with Yahagi force
TBF 1,2 and 3 in southern objective with Haruna Hellcat 1 in for escort
Hellcat 2 in with Baltimore on center objective

Axis
Emily in center objective with Baltimore Zeke 1,2 and 3 in center objective Zeke 4 in southern objective with Haruna

Allies Anti Air Attacks
Hellcat 1 on Zeke 4 in southern objective 11 dice 1,2,2,3,3,4,4,4,4,5,5 6 hits Zeke aborted
Hellcat 2 on Zeke 1 in center objective 11 dice 2,2,3,3,3,4,5,5,5,5,6 7 hits Zeke aborted
Arunta on Emily center objective 5 dice 1,2,3,3,5 missed
San Francisco on Emily 6 dice 2,4,6,6,6,6 9 hits Emily shot down
Baltimore on Zeke 2, 8 dice 2,2,2,3,3,4,4,4 missed

Axis Anti Air Attacks
Yahagi 1 on PBY 2 6 dice 1,3,3,5,5,6 PBY 2 aborted
Zeke 1 on Hellcat 2 center objective 7 dice 1,1,1,2,4,4,6 missed
Zeke 4 on Hellcat 1 southern objective 7 dice 2,2,4,4,5,6,6 7 hits Hellcat 1 aborted
Akitsuki on TBF 1 in southern objective 1st shot 5 dice 1,2,3,5,6 missed
Akitsuki on TBF 1 in southern objective 2nd shot 5 dice 1,1,5,5,6 missed
Haruna on TBF 1 in southern objective 7 dice 1,3,3,3,5,6,6 TBF 1 aborted

Air Attacks
Allies
TBF 2 on Haruna 3 dice +1 expert torpedos +1 BB killer +1 PBY shadowing
2,3,3,6,6 to torpedo hits Haruna crippled
TBF 3 on Haruna 3 dice +1 expert torpedos +1 BB killer +1 PBY shadowing
2,2,2,5,5,6 Haruna sunk

Axis
Zeke 3 on Arunta 2 dice 1,5 shot missed

Surface Attacks
Allies
Baltimore on Akitsuki range 3 (Baltimore crippled) main guns 7 dice
1,1,3,3,4,5,6 4 hits Akitsuki losses 1 hull pt. Akitsuki crippled
San Francisco on Akitsuki range 3 main guns 6 dice 2,3,4,5,6,6 6 hits Akitsuki sunk
Saratoga on Yahagi 1 northen objective range 1 main guns 8 dice 1,2,2,3,4,4,4,5
5 hits Yahagi 1 losses 1 hull pt
Saratoga secondary guns range 1, 4dice 2,4,4,5 Yahagi 1 hit losses 1 hull pt. crippled
Illustrious on Yahagi 1 range 1, 6 dice 1,1,5,5,5,5 4 hits Yahagi 1 sunk
Arunta on Yahagi 2 range 1, 5 dice 1,1,4,5,6 4 hits Yahagi 2 losses 1 hull pt.
Arunta on Yahagi 2 range 1 torpedos 1 dice rolls 6 Yahagi 2 sunk

Axis Surface attacks
Akitsuki in southern objective on San Francisco range 3 LL torpedos 1 dice roll 6
San Francisco sunk
Yahagi 1 northen objective on Saratoga range 1 main guns 6 dice 1,2,3,3,5,6 missed
Yahagi 1 range 1 LL torpedos 2 dice rolls 1,2 missed
Yahagi 2 range 1 main guns 6 dice 1,1,4,5,5,6 5 hits Saratoga losses 1 hull pt.
Yahagi 2 range 1 LL torpedos 2 dice rolls 2,4 misses

Air return
Allies take center objective for 100 points
Allies sink all Axis surface fleet for 100 points plus points total of surface fleet 164 points.

Axis take no objectives, sinks 45 points of surface fleet.

Synopsys
I played both fleets myself as I wanted to try out my Allied Carrier Inititive Fleet to see how well it would work. I was hoping to get to use the Illustrious SA sneak attack to roll seven dice for my TBF attacks on the BBs but never got a natural roll of 10 or higher. However even with out the SA my planes slaughtered the Haruna and the Kongo. The lack of torpedo defense on these to ships makes them almost usless as BBs, however they make for good heavy crusiers.

My Idea for the rushing of the objective with my IJN fleet is sound, but requiers the use of more ships and could benefit from a couple of subs. I may retool this fleet so that I use the Yamishiro instead of the Kongo sisters and there by gain a few more units.
_________________
WaS 128/64
TF 104/60
"Do or do not,...there is no try." Yoda
"War is hell brought to earth by man." General Sherman

IJN Fuso · Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Posts: 2189

Wow - great report. I think adding a Yamishiro woudl help - or go the other way and trade in Kondo for 3 Atitzukis if you want to bum rush the objectives. It's tough to defeat Avengers, so you need a way to minimize thier impact.
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TimK
IJN FUSO
www.modelwarshipcombat.com

swarbs · Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject:

Against Avengers, Kongo is really worse than a cruiser since Avengers get +1 for BB killer, and yes torpedo defense really would have helped.
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