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Escort

 
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cherryden



Joined: 08 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:26 pm    Post subject: Escort Reply with quote

Does one Fighter give Escort only to one Bomber or to all Bombers which are in the same sector?
If Fighter gives Escort only to one Bomber when should I choose the friendly Bomber?
For example, Sea Hurricane with Avenger, Swordfish and Barracuda in the same sector versus 2 Bf.109. Allies have initiative.

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swarbs
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One fighter can cover all the bombers in its own sector.
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cherryden



Joined: 08 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swarbs wrote:
One fighter can cover all the bombers in its own sector.

Can aborted or damaged Fighter give Escort to Bombers?
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swarbs
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, even shot down fighters, because action is supposed to be simultaneous, Escort still counts.
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Delta Echo



Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swarbs wrote:
One fighter can cover all the bombers in its own sector.


Are you sure about this?
We questioned this in our last game and ruled it was a 1 for 1 escort.

Read the Escort SA carefully:
Escort
If this unit is in the same sector as a friendly Bomber, enemy Fighters get -1 on each attack die when making Antiaircraft attacks against that Bomber.

Seems clear to me...
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swarbs
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Delta Echo wrote:
swarbs wrote:
One fighter can cover all the bombers in its own sector.


Are you sure about this?
We questioned this in our last game and ruled it was a 1 for 1 escort.

Read the Escort SA carefully:
Escort
If this unit is in the same sector as a friendly Bomber, enemy Fighters get -1 on each attack die when making Antiaircraft attacks against that Bomber.

Seems clear to me...


And each of the friendly bombers in that sector is 'a friendly bomber.'  So, yes, I'm sure, I'll try to find where any official clarification might exist and report back here.
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Delta Echo



Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think that if it was meant for multiple Bombers the SA would have/should have read "Bombers" (plural).
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swarbs
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Delta Echo wrote:
I would think that if it was meant for multiple Bombers the SA would have/should have read "Bombers" (plural).


But bombers are not attacked en masse.  They are attacked one at a time.  First bomber is attacked, look at escort SA, a bomber is in the same sector as the fighter so it is better defended, same for the second and third bombers that are attacked.  I understand your argument, but I don't believe that the wording is on your side, though a quick browse through the official clarifications hasn't turned up anything.  This is a question that was probably answered before the Avalon hill forums were transferred to Gleemax.  Perhaps someone else can weigh in or find some 'official' thing.
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Delta Echo



Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I'm really curious about this...
Any official (or otherwise) clarification would be much appreciated.
I'm actually hoping that a single fighter can escort multiple bombers, but the wording appeared to my play group to be a 1 for 1 Escort SA!
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Delta Echo



Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was this it?
http://aaminis.myfastforum.org/about1302.html
Halfway down, rutilius asked the same question and afilter responded that 1 fighter can escort multiple bombers, but he quotes no sources.
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swarbs
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is another thing that made me think that it was correct, I'm pretty sure that the bulk of the players play with one fighter escorting many, but that isn't really official as you say.  There are links to the clarification and rules update documents at that link you have, and there is also a WotC staffer who 'officially' answers rule questions, that forum is here:

http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=758

To get a new official clarification, you could certainly post a question there.
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cwfgamecast



Joined: 18 Feb 2008
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Location: Dedham, Ma

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swarbs wrote:
Delta Echo wrote:
swarbs wrote:
One fighter can cover all the bombers in its own sector.


Are you sure about this?
We questioned this in our last game and ruled it was a 1 for 1 escort.

Read the Escort SA carefully:
Escort
If this unit is in the same sector as a friendly Bomber, enemy Fighters get -1 on each attack die when making Antiaircraft attacks against that Bomber.

Seems clear to me...


And each of the friendly bombers in that sector is 'a friendly bomber.'  So, yes, I'm sure, I'll try to find where any official clarification might exist and report back here.


This reading is how my group and I have been playing it since the game came out.  That does not make it the correct reading, although I believe it to be.  But, I think reading it as a 1:1 ratio is splitting hairs.  Keep in mind that the single plane model actually represents an entire squadron.  There are historical references of carriers having fielding a single squadron of fighters, which escorted multiple squadrons of other planes (dive bombers and torpedo bombers).

I realize that isn't a factual rules angle but it can provide some support for the reading highlighted by Swarbs.
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swarbs
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Searched around for a while to find a possible answer.  Here's a block of text from the opening salvo for aircraft of the original set where it talks about the zero's escort ability.

"Escort is another great ability of this aircraft and matches its historical usage. Unless your opponent has no aircraft, it is generally best to have one A6M2 escorting three bombers in a sector; this gives them the benefit of Escort while maximizing the number of bombers there."

Which seems to say that you can escort all of them.

Here's the link:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=ah/aam/ah20070212c
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cwfgamecast



Joined: 18 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you hit the nail on the head.  Not only is that how I believe most people, including myself, play but it shows an official stance on the issue.

Hopefully that clears the issue up.  I hope nobody takes this as a slight but sometimes I think people, myself included, over think the rules and their meaning.

In this issue I see no reason why people couldn't house rule a different ratio of fighter to bomber or carrier attack plane (torpedo bomber) for their own use.
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Delta Echo



Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swarbs wrote:
Searched around for a while to find a possible answer.  Here's a block of text from the opening salvo for aircraft of the original set where it talks about the zero's escort ability.

"Escort is another great ability of this aircraft and matches its historical usage. Unless your opponent has no aircraft, it is generally best to have one A6M2 escorting three bombers in a sector; this gives them the benefit of Escort while maximizing the number of bombers there."

Which seems to say that you can escort all of them.

Here's the link:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=ah/aam/ah20070212c


I completely agree.
And I too, am guilty of reading too much into the rules sometime.
My group has already "realigned" ourselves with the reading of this rule.
Thanks for doing the leg work on finding this though!
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