Axis & Allies ForuMINI

weedsrock2

Our gaming club had 12 people show up for our monthly WaS game night last Friday. Wow! We had pre-announced that the games would be using RB's new experimental night rules. So we played a total of about 14 games using those rules. Plus at least one player playtested in advance. Overall, they worked pretty well but there were a few glitches.

The biggest 'glitch' was predetermining that we were going to use darkness rules. Because we knew darkness rules were in effect we all came with builds optimized for that. But in RB's rules we should technically have rolled a dice to determine if darkness rules were in effect. That allowed a few things to become pretty serious 'cheese.' We also restricted the (200 pt) games to the European theater which also had a bad side effect.

The biggest problem was the Sparviero. By knowing in advance that night rules were in effect and by restricting to the European theatre there was really no effective counter-balance to these bombers. Fighters are almost useless because they rarely 'find' the target and also crash on landing (a few people tried it) so the only counter is ship-based AA, and that is hobbled by a -1. Add that to the Sparviero's 5 armor and they ran wild and free all over the game and were virtually impossible to stop.

If we had used the 'roll a dice to determine night rules' there probably would have been more 'hedging' in fleet builds to have more aircraft in the builds, but with the ability to swap out 25% of your points it is still likely the Sparviero's would rule the game. I also tried a couple of Halifax's. They did about the same as day rules since they already only hit on 6's (which is to say mediocre), but they are also almost impossible to shoot down. They also can't attack destroyers or PT boats (see next).

One thing that is probably an 'accurate' and positive change is the utility of MTB/PT boats. They are harder to hit at distance, and their torpedo attacks are not affected 'in sector' so they get a better chance to do some damage. Almost everyone brought MTB/PT's in their builds.

Overall, the surface gunnery rules seem to work fine, but I think the aircraft rules still need some work. Patrol bombers are too powerful and almost impossible to shoot down, or even abort. One possibility is to require patrol bombers to also do a 'search check' to tone them down. They could still land without a recovery check. Or maybe patrol bombers only fail a search check or recovery check on a '1'? Or maybe Sparviero's shouldn't be able to operate with night rules! Razz

_________________

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

RAEVSKI · Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:44 am Post subject:

COOL these rules will be in play fore the ultimate dream campaggn
_________________

swarbs · Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject:

I didn't get to play my axis build that night and it included the lame establish screen and lead the attack combo. I think it could have been much more effective at night than in the day. Aircraft are almost removed as a threat and there is no ER, so only the battleships that had been lined up to defend that objective would be able to shoot them, plus they'd have a -1 on gunnery making a vital hit less likely.

Cruisers are much more effective because at night, like DD's, they are protected over range three against BB guns, so I think points spent on cruiser SA's like flotilla and cruiser leader, or the above combo were better values at night than in the day.
_________________

weedsrock2 · Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject:

doganpc · AHF Bronze-Rated Trader Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Posts: 243

weedsrock2 · Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:11 am Post subject:

RTBS · Joined: 10 Apr 2008 Posts: 16 Location: Iowa

Weedsrock - As we play historical limits, there's only one Eugenio I believe, so only one Koln can reach an objective on first turn. In our games anyway. Still, it would have been interesting to see how well it would have worked at night. If you had S-Boats to deny one objective, could use a Koln to get one on first turn. Then your opponent would pretty much be fighting for his life over the last one.

My Axis fleet had a flotilla leader bonus and plenty of destroyers. As most folk brought Battleships and very few of the Non-US Allied ships have a flag bonus, I had initiative very time in every game I played. And being able to get those destroyers in close against the BBs to use the Valiant Stand SA of the Ludeman's was nice. And I found having initiative every time made it easier to put my U-boats where I could do the most damage.

I would agree though that the Patrol Bombers are too powerful. I did not bring Sparvs, but I think you'd agree with me that even the Kondors were too powerful. I was able to fly two every turn, got four rocket attacks during the game, was able to harrass any sub I wanted pretty much, and as pinpointers for my U-Boats, I was rolling a lot of torpedoes. There were no penalties (except for ASW) and the only guy I played out of three games who had anything that could counter them ended up losing 2 of his three fighters and only got to attack one Kondor once (he only aborted).

In retrospect, my Axis build was probably of the "Cheesy" variety you refer to. Oh well. Playing the "It might be dark, it might not be dark" rule would probably eliminate that. At least from the Kondor side of things as they don't defend well against fighters. The Sparvs though, as you mention, would still be an issue.
_________________

cealigh "the MadSco

weedsrock2

weedsrock2 · Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject:

IJN Fuso · Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Posts: 2189

Can you post a link to the night rules you were using?
_________________
TimK
IJN FUSO
www.modelwarshipcombat.com

weedsrock2 · Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject:

weedsrock2 · Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject:

IJN Fuso · Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Posts: 2189

Thanks Weeds. - that helps.

After reading those rules, I'd agree with you that the aircraft rules might need a little bit of tweaking for playability. My suggestions are not really historically accurate though:

I'd add a Patrol Bomber Search Check - maybe on 3+ vs 4+ for other aircraft.

Off the top of my head - I'd change the aircraft recovery rules
For land based planes - destroy on 1, Additional rearming counter on 2
For carrier based planes - destroy on 1,2, rearming counter on 3
For patrol bombers, additional rearming counter on 1

These might be worth a test.

Also - I like rolling a die to determine - if a 1,2 is rolled, its night and you get to exchange 25% points for new units.
_________________
TimK
IJN FUSO
www.modelwarshipcombat.com

weedsrock2 · Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:59 am Post subject: